June 29, 2005
Open Source Amendment Project - Revision 4
There were a lot of good comments and questions on
Revision 3. I'll go through those first.
Tuning Spork made some excellent excellent points in several comments I've combined:
First off, I'd change “for a period of 50 years” to for a period of not less than 50 years“. That just so's no one thinks that the government is required to sell it back to the either the old owner(s) (or their heirs) or a new private owner when the 50 years has passed.
Property shall not be taken if the purpose of the acquisition is the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise which business enterprise would own any right, title, or interest in the property so acquired.
Even though the 5th Amendment uses the word ”taken“, it's modified by ”without just compensation“, so I think the word above should be ”purchased“.
And I think that ”Property shall not be taken“ should read ”Private property shall not be purchased by government“.
The bigger problem with the way it's worded is that it outlaws even a voluntary sale of private property to government if the government intends to resell it to a private entity. Perhaps the words ”under duress“ should be added.
Also, you specify only ”a private business enterprise“. What if John Bon Jovi wants to buy your house but you don't want to sell? What if he got the town use eminent domain to force you to sell it to the town who'd then sell it to John Bon Jovi?
And, I can already hear someone arguing in court that ”it's not for 'the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise', it's for the economic development of the town as a whole!“.
Good catch on the fine point of the time requirement, it should be a minimum not a deadline.
I think if a town purchases property, i.e in a voluntary contract with the seller then by definition the seller has received just compensation. My town has acquired numerous fairly large pieces of land under a voluntary sale with stipulations that they be maintained as open spaces. It was a deal between the town and the seller and if it was a big enough purchase done via referendum.
I am not convinced that eminent domain being used for an individual to take a home from another is or will be an issue, but it will not weaken the amendment to add a reference to a private individual to the last sentence. And Spork is right it needs a little tweaking about who the taking is promoting economic development for.
Justin asked the question:
What if the state decides to let a private enterprise build on its land but still maintains all titles of ownership? Possible loophole?
I think we have that covered by specifying that ”public use shall be limited to property that shall be
entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the
direct use of the public.“ In fact I asked the question could we just end it there? Is the following sentence unnecessarily redundant? Or is necessarily to make clear beyond any doubt what the intent of the amendment is?
Qunicy Brings a topic we have not really delved into yet:
I think that ”just compensation“ should also be defined somehow. One idea I've heard is twice the average market price for the neighborhood, since the property is being coercively taken, not sold.
I have been giving this some thought since this comment and I don't seem to be able to get my head around an acceptable standard. While the concept of a punitive payment requirement is appealing in case like Kelo v New London I don't know if it would be in a legitimate use of eminent domain for a legitimate public purpose. I was considering something along the lines of basing just compensation on the average selling price of a similar property per square foot. This would leave some room for manipulation in how a property is classified. I am going to take a crack at this in this revision - I know it is going to need some help.
Lastly Stephen Littau offers up an entirely new amendment for our consideration that he has aggressed to his congressman.
Section 1: Eminent domain shall not be construed to allow any government within the United States to take property from one private citizen, corporation, or organization to be given or sold to any other citizen, corporation, or organization for any reason. The Federal government shall only invoke eminent domain in order to carry out the necessary functions of government as enumerated in this Constitution.
Section 2: ‘Just compensation’ shall be defined as no less than double the fair market value of the property being taken for local, State, and Federal governments to carry out their legally prescribed functions.
Section 3: No government within the jurisdiction of the United States shall invoke eminent domain with the purpose of generating additional revenue.
I like point 1 very much. The only problem I have is with the second sentence. Not so much with what it says but simply because so much of what the federal government does is beyond ”the necessary functions of government as enumerated in this Constitution“ that I am not sure how that would work. That however is a bigger fish than we are trying to fry here.
In point 2 I am still not willing to go for punitive compensation. On the assumption that this amendment were actually in effect any taking would be for a legitimate public use. That being the case I think we need to keep the concept of ”just“ in mind for both parties. I am warming to the idea of making the taking agency responsible for all of the property owners costs in litigating to prevent the taking - win or lose. Taking should be permissible for a legitimate public use but it should be discouraged.
In point 3 the question I have is would this prevent a government from building a facility on taken land who's function is to collect taxes and fees? I think a restriction based on ”purpose“ is too weak. And like in the case of this project, I wonder if given other language this part is really necessary.
So now for revision 4
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall not be construed to allow any government within the United States to take property from one private citizen, corporation, or organization to be given or sold to any other citizen, corporation, or organization for any reason. No private citizen, corporation, or organization shall own any right, title, or interest in the property so acquired. Public use shall be limited to property entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public for a period of not less than 50 years.
Just Compensation shall be higher of the average price paid per square foot of similar property in the preceding twelve months or the average of the previous 24 recorded property transactions. For purposes of this determination property may be classified as residential, commercial, mixed use, or undeveloped land. This classification shall be based on the predominate state of a property for the preceding 12 months.
What I don't know is if/how we deal with neglect, disrepair, abandonment. Under this, or any other market average system I could think of, the owner of a run down hovel would probably wind up getting paid more than what the property is worth while the better property might wind up getting paid less. One could of course argue that this won't be an issue since they aren't likely to come after the rich guy's house anyway, however the relative net worth of the property owner should not entitle one to a lesser justice. This type of system also does not take into account the subjective value of property, particularly a home. It will not justly compensate the owner of a home that has been in the family for multiple generations.
If someone wants to take a stab at convincing me that twice market average system is more fair or just I'm open to the argument. But take Kelo out of it. Assume the first part of this amendment is in force and convince me.
One thing we need to keep in mind is that nothing in any of this language supersedes due process. Just because we have spelled out the parameters of eminent domain does not mean that a taking - even one that is within all the criteria cannot be fought. Particularly in the court of public opinion.
more...
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
03:48 PM
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1
Under this, or any other market average system I could think of, the owner of a run down hovel would probably wind up getting paid more than what the property is worth while the better property might wind up getting paid less.
The owner of the rundown fixer-upper should be paid a (higher) average market value because that's what he or she or they will need if they're going to find somewhere else to live. I mean, a family of 5 will be S out of L if they are bought out of their 6-room house but then can only afford to buy a 1-bedroom condo.
But anyone receiving LESS than the specific market value of their property is definately not being justly compensated. So, I suggest that the ousted owners should be paid the higher of either a) the value of their home or b) the average value of similar-sized homes in similar neighborhoods. If that means that the family of 5 can actually afford an upgrade, great!!!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 29, 2005 05:55 PM (xs9jx)
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But what about the slime-ball absentee slumlord who does absolutely nothing to maintain the dumps he rents to people we're already supporting. Would a market average be "just compensation" or an undeserved windfall.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 29, 2005 06:22 PM (ics4u)
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"The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall not be construed to allow any government within the United States to take property from one private citizen..."
Not to be a nitpick, but why even reference the fifth amendment at all? To me, it just seems to muddy the text and confuse the issue. Wouldn't it be better to just state something explicit, such as:
"No government body within these United States shall have the authority to take property from one private citizen..."
Much simpler and cleaner, but still gets the same point across. Even better, it's completely explicit - there's no room for misinterpretation of intent there.
Posted by: Russell Newquist at June 30, 2005 06:26 AM (lUNFP)
4
Stephen:
You have got quite a constructive dialogue going here. Language of any proposed amendment is very important to consider. Having said that, I realize the ‘enumeration clause’ could be a deal breaker for such an amendment with politicians who love creating government programs that go well beyond the enumerated powers found in Article I, Section 8 and additional powers granted to the federal government in certain amendments. If this language was included in the amendment and if the judges reviewing the law were honest, the government could not take property from citizens for a government purpose that was beyond the powers which are already granted in the Constitution (i.e. the Endowment of the Arts or the FDA). If this language was taken out, however; at least the ‘citizen to citizen’ clause would remain and eliminate much of the eminent domain abuse which is rampant in this country.
On Section 2, the reason I believe that such an amendment should set a minimum compensation requirement is that if the law does not specifically set the requirement, a judge will. ‘Just compensation’ is too ambiguous for today’s lawyers with their ability to do some impressive linguistic gymnastics.
The purpose of Section 3 is to remove any doubts in the minds of government lawyers, judges, and bureaucrats about the purpose of eminent domain. The idea is to make it clear that generating revenue through increased property taxes is not reason enough to take someone’s property. Also, you said:
“In point 3 the question I have is would this prevent a government from building a facility on taken land who's function is to collect taxes and fees?”
My answer to your question would be no. If the IRS (or any other tax collecting government authority) needed to build a facility but needed to invoke eminent domain, even with this amendment, the IRS still would have that ability. Collecting taxes would be a legitimate government activity; generating additional revenue would not.
As to revision 4 of your proposed amendment, I would definitely support it. The main thing we should be looking for in the actual language of the amendment is clarity. We have to think like lawyers; think of the various ways a lawyer would try to twist the language to fit his client’s agenda. The amendment should allow as little wiggle-room as possible in my view.
Posted by: Stephen Littau at June 30, 2005 11:00 AM (7KXbv)
5
With regards to just compensation, without considering Kelo, the double market value proposal does seem somewhat punative towards government. What I would suggest in its place would be average market value before any action was taken on eminent domain, since such an action would significantly lower the market value of the entire neighborhood.
Posted by: Quincy at June 30, 2005 01:03 PM (uDi3q)
6
How about a system based on the the average assessed tax value over 5 years. Since tax evaluations are usually quite less, I could see doubling that number. This would base compensation on what the town viewed as the value of the property.
Of course a town could then use extremely low assessed values and a very high mil rate.
I am not sure it is possible to craft language that provides zero wiggle room for lawyers and judges. Particularly when the Supreme Court just ignores any language they don't like the actual meaning of. i.e "public use," "congress shall make no law." The only way to prevent abuse of eminent domain entirely would be to ban it outright. A strong amendment will send a strong message but there will always be sleazy lawyers and judges who agree with them.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 30, 2005 01:49 PM (ics4u)
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Quincy,
That is what I was trying for in this revision. I picked and average based on the sales in the past year to make it reasonably market sensitive and added the possibility of the last 24 recorded sales in case a type of property hadn't sold or sold often in 12 months.
I based on straight math of price per square foot since the only way to make it just is to remove subjective evaluations.
In a town like mine where I live in a nice middle class home in a nice middle class neighborhood but mid to high seven figure homes are not uncommon and there some into 8 figures, I would make out well if they took my house.
Someone who paid more than the town average would get hurt, though those properties are probably a lot less likely to be threatened by eminent domain.
The slum lord or the person who does nothing to maintain their property would probably wind up getting a large windfall.
This outcome certainly does not qualify as fair, but I think it is just.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 30, 2005 02:03 PM (ics4u)
8
The reason why I believe the government should pay at least double the fair market value is not so much to punish the government from taking property from a citizen as much as it is to give the citizen more money for the inconvenience of having to relocate. Merely paying slightly over the fair market value does not seem fair to me at all, especially if the property owner has some kind of emotional attachment to the property (i.e. the property has been in the family for 3 generations) and would otherwise not willingly sell the property to someone else.
Also, I would not feel a bit sorry for the government for paying extra. This is the same government that will pay $1,500 for one hammer. The government would have no trouble footing the bill. If there is an appearance of unfairness, we should always err on the side of the individual not the government.
Posted by: Stephen Littau at July 01, 2005 10:30 AM (7KXbv)
9
I can definitely see the value of forcing government to pay a premium if only for its tendency to discourage eminent domain. The problem I have with a double market value approach is that market value is subjective. It is wide open to abuse and would result in endless litigation.
My idea of a formula based on recorded sales within broadly defined categories was to create an objective standard that could be applied evenly and predictably to all to all. The results of such a system may not always be fair, but they would be just.
It would certainly be feasible to add a multiplier to the formula. it would remain just in its application, it would discourage the use of eminent domain but it would not be any more "fair".
In fact the biggest problem with the system is it makes prime real-estate available to government at a discount price, since they can get it for the same price per foot as they can get less desirable property.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at July 01, 2005 01:35 PM (ics4u)
10
I am wondering if the problem I mentioned in the last sentence of the comment above might not actually be a benefit. If the square foot formula makes prime real estate more attractive for eminent domain, but the owners of that property likely have more influence on the government, might that not be a further obstruction to the use of eminent domain?
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at July 02, 2005 03:43 AM (ics4u)
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June 28, 2005
Too Good To Be True. But It Is.
When I saw this at
Captain's Quarters I thought it had to be a hoax. Funny as hell. But a hoax nonetheless. Then I saw it again at
The Volokh Conspiracy So I clicked through to
Freestar Media, LLC and checked them out and it seems genuine enough to me. This is one of the best political stunts I have seen in a long time. I'm going to reproduce the entire press release.
For Release Monday, June 27 to New Hampshire media
For Release Tuesday, June 28 to all other media
Weare, New Hampshire (PRWEB) Could a hotel be built on the land owned by Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter? A new ruling by the Supreme Court which was supported by Justice Souter himself itself might allow it. A private developer is seeking to use this very law to build a hotel on Souter's land.
Justice Souter's vote in the “Kelo vs. City of New London” decision allows city governments to take land from one private owner and give it to another if the government will generate greater tax revenue or other economic benefits when the land is developed by the new owner.
On Monday June 27, Logan Darrow Clements, faxed a request to Chip Meany the code enforcement officer of the Towne of Weare, New Hampshire seeking to start the application process to build a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road. This is the present location of Mr. Souter's home.
Clements, CEO of Freestar Media, LLC, points out that the City of Weare will certainly gain greater tax revenue and economic benefits with a hotel on 34 Cilley Hill Road than allowing Mr. Souter to own the land.
The proposed development, called “The Lost Liberty Hotel” will feature the “Just Desserts Café” and include a museum, open to the public, featuring a permanent exhibit on the loss of freedom in America. Instead of a Gideon's Bible each guest will receive a free copy of Ayn Rand's novel “Atlas Shrugged.”
Clements indicated that the hotel must be built on this particular piece of land because it is a unique site being the home of someone largely responsible for destroying property rights for all Americans.
“This is not a prank” said Clements, “The Towne of Weare has five people on the Board of Selectmen. If three of them vote to use the power of eminent domain to take this land from Mr. Souter we can begin our hotel development.”
Clements' plan is to raise investment capital from wealthy pro-liberty investors and draw up architectural plans. These plans would then be used to raise investment capital for the project. Clements hopes that regular customers of the hotel might include supporters of the Institute For Justice and participants in the Free State Project among others.
# # #
Logan Darrow Clements
Freestar Media, LLC
Five justices can eviscerate property rights for all Americans. Three Selectmen in New Hampshire can make it real for one of them. It would be beautiful.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
03:34 PM
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1
Road trip!!!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 28, 2005 04:48 PM (p1XKy)
2
While it certainly makes sense to me, I don't know that I really want a judge retaliated against for doing what he thought was his job.
Impeach him, instead.
Volokh conspiracy thoughts
here
Posted by: owlish at June 29, 2005 05:10 AM (QqkkN)
3
Has anyone looked up the whois information on freestarmedia.com? Just posing the question, to protect those of us who would love to contribute to this cause, but don't want to be suckers for giving money to a possible shyster.
http://whois.sc/freestarmedia.com
Why protect the contact NAME, when they clearly say it is Logan Darrow Clements who is the CEO of this company? The address appears to be the address of namecheap.com, not of Freestar Media. Also, the phone number connects to namecheap.com, which happens to be a Santa Clarita, CA number. I called and the message said "Hi, you've reached namecheap.com ..."
Has anyone actually seen the request for an application submitted to the purported "Chip Meany" the code enforcement officer of the Towne of Weare? Or perhaps, the application? I should like to call and see if this person is really the code enforcement officer of Weare.
hmmm...
Does anyone has any evidence to either back this story up, or debunk it?
Very Skeptical
Posted by: WhoisGuard at July 04, 2005 07:08 AM (8hI3Z)
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June 27, 2005
Open Source Amendment Project - Revision 3
Here is a revision of the amendment incorporating some of the language I found earlier at
Virginal Postrel's site.
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall be narrowly construed. To protect the right to ownership of property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public for a period of 50 years. Property shall not be taken if the purpose of the acquisition is the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise which business enterprise would own any right, title, or interest in the property so acquired.
As always I
welcome want feedback and input from as many sources as possible.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
03:50 PM
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First off, I'd change
"for a period of 50 years" to
for a period of not less than 50 years". That just so's no one thinks that the government is required to sell it back to the either the old owner(s) (or their heirs) or a new private owner when the 50 years has passed.
Property shall not be taken if the purpose of the acquisition is the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise which business enterprise would own any right, title, or interest in the property so acquired.
Even though the 5th Amendment uses the word
"taken", it's modified by
"without just compensation", so I think the word above should be
"purchased".
And I think that
"Property shall not be taken" should read
"Private property shall not be purchased by government".
The bigger problem with the way it's worded is that it outlaws even a
voluntary sale of private property to government if the government intends to resell it to a private entity. Perhaps the words
"under duress" should be added.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 04:35 PM (Xo4No)
2
Also, you specify only
"a private business enterprise". What if John Bon Jovi wants to buy your house but you don't want to sell? What if he got the town use eminent domain to force you to sell it to the town who'd then sell it to John Bon Jovi?
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 04:40 PM (Xo4No)
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And, I can already hear someone arguing in court that
"it's not for 'the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise', it's for the economic development of the town as a whole!".
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 04:45 PM (Xo4No)
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If they were purchasing property i.e. on the open market we wouldn't be doing this! I think the distinction between taking and purchasing is very important.
We could ad reference to individuals as well though I think that scenario is a fairly uncommon.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 27, 2005 04:45 PM (ics4u)
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Excellent point on the taking/purchasing distinction. In a purchase the seller has a say.
A reference to individual third parties may seem unneccesery now, but just wait 'til the commies present it as precedent for governmet's Right to all property.
"Public interest" can mean anything a tyrant decides it means. Better to be clear 'bout it now than to debate it later...
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 08:33 PM (+bMxo)
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And this is my other beef: Why are we finnessing this? The beauty of the Constitution is that it's so short. Why not just say that
"a man owns what he owns and his government can't tell him otherwise"...?n "Balance"? Shmalance. Property distinct from government is what we're founded on. Every man a king!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 08:51 PM (+bMxo)
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What if the state decides to let a private enterprise build on its land but still maintains all titles of ownership? Possible loophole?
Posted by: Justin at June 27, 2005 09:03 PM (tFwvo)
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Spork,
We are finessing this because there will always be eminent domain but it needs to be strictly limited.
Justin,
I think that loophole is close by the clause defining public use:
"public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public for a period of 50 years."
I still wonder if we could just end it there?
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 28, 2005 01:38 AM (ics4u)
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I think that "just compensation" should also be defined somehow. One idea I've heard is twice the average market price for the neighborhood, since the property is being coercively taken, not sold.
Posted by: Quincy at June 28, 2005 08:48 AM (uDi3q)
10
Stephen:
I'd like to have your thoughts on my propsed amendment:
Section 1: Eminent domain shall not be construed to allow any government within the United States to take property from one private citizen, corporation, or organization to be given or sold to any other citizen, corporation, or organization for any reason. The Federal government shall only invoke eminent domain in order to carry out the necessary functions of government as enumerated in this Constitution.
Section 2: ‘Just compensation’ shall be defined as no less than double the fair market value of the property being taken for local, State, and Federal governments to carry out their legally prescribed functions.
Section 3: No government within the jurisdiction of the United States shall invoke eminent domain with the purpose of generating additional revenue.
Posted by: Stephen Littau at June 28, 2005 07:42 PM (8961+)
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Open Source Amendment Project update
Via
Virginal Postrel I found the following language from the charter of Carrillton, TX. I think we can use some of this in this project.
“Provided, however, nothing included above or anywhere in this charter shall authorize the City of Carrollton, or any corporations, agency or entity created by the City, or pursuant to the City's approval and authorization, to institute and exercise the power of eminent domain to acquire private or public property if the purpose of the acquisition is the promotion of economic development for a private business enterprise which business enterprise would own any right, title, or interest in the property so acquired.” (Emphasis added.)
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08:09 AM
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June 26, 2005
Open Source Amendment Project - Revision 2
I have been hoping to have a lot more debate and input in term of numbers involved, but I really couldn't have hoped for more in terms of quality.
Check the comments to the original draught.
And the comments on Revision 1
Be sure to take a look at the press release which has so far generated zero interest!
The participants to date have expressed some doubt about some of the language in this revision. I will do my best to explain the intent of each clause. I am still hoping to broaden the input to bring in some aditional perspectives. Someone who knows something about the law would be more than welcome!!
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall be narrowly construed. To protect the right to ownership of property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public. Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in increased revenue through taxation of any person, private business or other legal entity and shall retain ownership of taken property for a period of 50 years.
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall be narrowly construed.
In addition to putting the courts on notice that they have little or no leeway in interpreting both this and the Fifth Amendment, this clause establishes the importance of property rights. Property rights are indeed fundamental to the concept of liberty. If you do not have the rights of ownership of the property you paid for, then you do not have the right of ownership of the wages you earned for your labor.
Every man has a property in his own person. This nobody has a right to, but himself. -- John Locke
To protect the right to ownership of property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public.
The phrase “right to ownership of property” is an intentional avoidance of the phrase “right to property.” The last thing we want is some judge ruling the amendment that we have to give everyone some property because they have a right to it. Here it is expressly stated that you have the right of ownership of property. i.e property you paid for. The real meat is in the second phrase stating that taken property must be owned operated and maintained by the taking agency. This taken along with the language narrowly construing the language of the Fifth Amendment should put an end to taking property for Wal-Mart and Pfizer.
Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in increased revenue through taxation of any person, private business or other legal entity and shall retain ownership of taken property for a period of 50 years.
The first half of this statement has given us some trouble. It is essentially a direct response to the Kelo decision stating that increased tax revenue is not a public use. I am not sure we have it right yet, and I am not sure if we even need it. If, based on the language in the previous statement the government taking the property must own operate and maintain the property for direct public use it is not possible to take property and turn it over to another private concern, then the tax issue is moot.
As for the 50 year requirement this is protection against a municipality taking a property, holding it briefly then turning it over to a private developer.
Thanks again to Zendo Deb, Tuning Spork and Justin for their help.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
05:54 PM
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1
Finally someone who gets it! The Declaration Of Independence states: Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you delve into the meaning of happiness, as it was used by Jefferson and other scholars of the time, it means land ownership.
How would you like to find some place you want to live, by a fixer upper and finally have everything just the way you want it only to be re-located for a McDonalds?
This was strike three for the Supreme Court; I just don't understand what has happened for the court to be making these rulings.
Posted by: BThe Uncooperative Blogger at June 26, 2005 07:26 PM (m/Lj/)
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Now that there is no real ownership of property left in Amerika, I guess that actually makes us serfs of the New World Order.
I call your attention to the 45 GOALS OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY from 1958. In this case, pay close attention to #29 through #33, and #45.
1. U.S. acceptance of co-existence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist domination.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests, because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both political parties.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of "teacher" associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate" all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.
23. Control art critics and directors of museums. "Plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "Separation of Church and State."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the grounds that it was only a minor part of "the big picture." Give emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more "unions"!
37. Infiltrate and gain control of "big business"!
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which "no one but psychiatrists" can understand and treat.
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the "family" as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the "negative" influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blanks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition, that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the PANAMA CANAL.
45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the WORLD COURT from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the WORLD COURT jurisdiction over "Nations and Individuals" alike.
*All 45 Goals above are from "The Naked Communist," W. Cleon Skousen, November 1961, pp. 259-262.
TAKE NOTE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTER CONVENTION FOLLOWING THE 45 GOALS.
Posted by: Wally Q at June 27, 2005 06:12 AM (D7DRM)
3
Wally Q, I was looking for that list some months ago and didn't find it for some reason. Thanks!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 27, 2005 03:52 PM (Xo4No)
4
I was wondering when someone was going to remind us of the talking points of the Communist Agenda as found in "The Naked Communist". I learned that if you just play "the game" and never consider that the opposition has a game plan, an agenda and a stratagy to accomplish that agenda, then you will have lost. We are in the game of our lives and the prize is Liberty for the individual or Slavery to the State.
Posted by: TF Stern at June 27, 2005 04:44 PM (dz3wA)
5
Whew! Reading through that list was like reading the Democratic Party platform - you know, the "special" one that only guys like Hillary are permitted to see. ;-)
Posted by: Libercontrarian at June 27, 2005 06:50 PM (qX/FK)
6
Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy...
Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto… The following brief presents the original ten planks within the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, along with the American adopted counterpart for each of the planks. From comparison it's clear MOST Americans have by myths, fraud and deception under the color of law by their own politicians in both the Republican and Democratic and parties, been transformed into Communists.
Another thing to remember, Karl Marx in creating the Communist Manifesto designed these planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.
Communism, by any other name is still communism, and is VERY VERY destructive to the individual and to the society!!
The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...
1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (186

, and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.
Do changing words, change the end result? ... By using different words, is it all of a sudden OK to ignore or violate the provisions or intent of the Constitution of the united States of America?????
The people (politicians) who believe in the SOCIALISTIC and COMMUNISTIC concepts, especially those who pass more and more laws implementing these slavery ideas, are traitors to their oath of office and to the Constitution of the united States of America... KNOW YOUR ENEMY ...Remove the enemy from within and from among us.
VOTE LIBERTARIAN, the only political party in America that still firmly supports and diligently abides by the Constitution of the united States of America.
None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....
Posted by: EagleClaw at June 28, 2005 05:33 AM (D7DRM)
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The Morning After
Many who wrote in the immediate aftermath of the Supreme Court's Kelo decision (see
here for a sampling of links) have now taken a taken a step back for a more dispassionate analysis. I think a number of them are getting it wrong. (I am not going to name names and link posts. If you go through the sites in my original list of links you will see all of these arguments)
One argument I have read is that a good deal of the outrage stems from the stories if the individuals involved in this case. While I don't doubt that sympathy for the individuals being forced from their homes played some part in the reaction, attributing the outrage to that factor alone misses the point and vastly underestimates the thinking of those who are deeply troubled by this ruling.
This argument is usually offered hand in hand with the observation that takings for purposes of increased tax revenue are nothing new and the court is merely ratifying existing practice and precedent. Therefore the reaction must stem form the particulars of this case. Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. This thinking clearly, and surprisingly, disregards a concept that that has become quite popular in both amateur and professional punditry. The idea of the tipping point. There has been a constant erosion of property rights via regulation and eminent domain. This case represented perhaps the last chance to stop that erosion.
I was aware of the issue of municipalities taking property purely for a tax revenue gain. Clearly the facts of the Kelo case, stripped of the particular stories of the individuals involved, are not unique. It is an unfortunately old and too frequently told story. Many people, myself included, looked at these cases and were angered. But we were not without hope. However naive some think that hope to have been, the issue had not been decided. There was the hope that when it reached the court, tax revenue would be determined not to be public use and the practice would be brought to a halt. Now there is no avenue of appeal. The issue has been decided. The hope has been destroyed. For the average homeowner, there is little or nothing standing in the way of their town seizing their property to give it to someone who can generate more tax revenue.
I always felt our first house was at risk. It was located just over the line that separated a commercial zone from a residential. At the end of our street was an on-ramp for I95. The town is building a new station on the Metro North commuter line about half a mile away and development of the area is already booming. When we moved I put that concern aside. We live in a quiet residential neighborhood that got its start as a 1950's subdivision. A cluster of capes on small lots. Most of the houses have been renovated and expanded, having gone from their original 1200 square foot size to an average of probably 1800 - 2000 sf. The average price for a house on my street is probably about $650,000. (yes I happen to live in one of the most ridiculously expensive parts of the country.) Could the city see an increase in tax revenue by giving the land to a developer who would bulldoze the neighborhood and put up a dozen or so 3500 sf mcmansions that would probably sell for $1 million or better. Definitely. Does this concern me. Definitely. Am I pissed off that I even have to give this a second thought. Definitely.
People are undoubtedly looking at their own lives and their own property and realizing that if the government can stretch the concept of public use to cover just about anything then their rights to their property are at risk. How can anyone misunderstand why this upsets people?
Another argument that quite frankly has me a bit befuddled is centered around limited government/judicial restraint vs big government/judicial activism. Maybe its me, but some people seem to have this so completely backwards. I have read the argument that conservatives who wanted the court to rule against the town of New London were in the unusual position of advocating for judicial activism and bigger government. This argument holds that overturning the evolving practice of takings for tax revenue and the existing precedents would be an act of judicial activism. On the contrary, refusing to expand the definition of “public use” beyond any rational meaning would hardly be judicial activism. And if halting and overturning previous judicial activism is to be considered a bad thing, then what is the point of going through the fight to put originalists on the bench in the first place. Is it enough then for conservatives to say judicial activism stops now, but we wont try to undo any of the damage that has been done? I don't think so.
It is not enough to say we only want to prevent any further erosion of the Constitutional protection of our rights. Stopping where we are is not enough.
A third argument I have read is the Federalist argument. I have read that this is the right decision because what constitutes a “public use” should be determined at the local level. While I am a strong supporter of states rights and think more often than not the federal government interferes in in local matters too much there are some principals that to broad and too important to be left to patchwork of state and local policies. If this were an issue that was to be left to the states, the Fifth Amendment would not include the language in protection of property that it does. The fact that the courts have allowed the protection of property rights to be eroded away to virtually nothing does not change the fact that from the ratification of the Bill of Rights, they were protected Constitutionally.
I have not seen a decent argument yet to the effect that this was a good, or even reasonable decision. This is yet another instance of the government systematically eroding the rights of the individual. We are not people to them, we are revenue sources. And if we are not producing enough they will bring someone who will.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
02:48 PM
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June 25, 2005
Quick Draw in Texas
Via The
Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler comes this
story from Freeport Texas. I'm only going to quote the lead. Follow the link to get the rest of the angering details.
By THAYER EVANS
Chronicle Correspondent
FREEPORT - With Thursday's Supreme Court decision, Freeport officials instructed attorneys to begin preparing legal documents to seize three pieces of waterfront property along the Old Brazos River from two seafood companies for construction of an $8 million private boat marina.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
02:21 PM
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For Immediate Release
A press release has been sent in support of the Open Source Amendment Project.
PDF
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
07:41 AM
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1
Eep! I used to have Adobe Acrobat, but since my reformats last fall I'm Acrobatless. Got a "regular" version available?
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 01:35 PM (c4k0Z)
2
Woo hoo! Thanks, Steve! Excellent release, too! Who'd ya send it to?
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 02:12 PM (c4k0Z)
3
I sent it to long list of newspapers and online news outlets. I basically just started at Google News and clicked on stories. Dug through the sites for an email or contact form. I've hit 56 outlets so far.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 02:15 PM (ics4u)
4
Just hit the national news magazines, the network and cable news outlets.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 03:32 PM (ics4u)
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Open Source Amendment - Revision 1
Some great input already. Thanks.
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall be narrowly construed. To protect the right to property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public. Government shall not take property for any purpose that includes or results in higher taxation and shall retain ownership of taken property for a period of 50 years.
I like the suggestion from
Tuning Spork of expressly stating that the Fifth amendment takings clause will be narrowly construed. Justin's suggestion about not creating tax revenue is spot on. I might even go further and say a taking would qualify as a public use only if it resulted in a loss of taxable property. If someone wants to take a stab at wording that I'd be grateful.
I understand the reasoning for Zendo Deb wanting to put a time requirement on the public use portion. The amendment should anticipate the possibility of a municipality churning a property. Holding it briefly then handing it over to a developer. 99 years might be a bit much I think. 50 years would certainly make eminent domain useless as a business tool. I could be wrong though. It's happened once before!
more...
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
03:29 AM
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1
I like it. I also like the clause in the version I quoted that covers sales for tax liens. Today if a property is sold for a tax lien, anything in the price above and beyond the cost of the owed taxes and penalties and interest is retained by the government and not returned to the owner - usually a grieving widow or grieving family... as this is when this tends to be an issue.
Any equity in the property above what is owed to the government realized in the tax sale should revert to the owner of the property.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at June 25, 2005 04:05 AM (S417T)
2
I also think that public use should be explicitly spelled out. Otherwise the "no tax revenue" clause can be defeated by granting a tax wavier to the developer.
It isn't just Wal-Mart. Hydroelectic dams, the railroads, etc. have been built on land stolen from individuals.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at June 25, 2005 04:07 AM (S417T)
3
That is the tricky part. How to word it to actually limit taking to public use. I don't think a laundry list of approved uses would work. It would be an enormous political nightmare. Since it is my intention to take this beyond a mere intellectual exercise the realities of the ratification process need to be considered.
Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to get a list of approved projects through Congress as an amendment let alone through the states!
As for a tax waiver, yes that would be possible however there is also the requirement that the city own, operate and maintain the property for 50 years.
I don't think, give the one in a billion (or two) odds of something like this actually being ratified, that is would be possible to write something sleaze proof. However if it can eliminate 95% of abuse it is a win. Short of that the only other solution is to eliminate the power of eminent domain completely. I don't think that's a realistic idea.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 04:24 AM (ics4u)
4
We can't be too terribly worried about hydroelectric dams or railroads. Those are the sort of things that eminent domain was created for. There's a fine line to walk here; we have to understand that the state WILL reserve the right to take lands for its own use. What we're fighting is this sudden impulse to give it to private developers for purposes such as riverside casinos or hotels or anything along those lines. In those instances, that particular property isn't necessary, it's just preferable. They can put their Wal-Mart anywhere, so why take some unwilling American's home?
Posted by: Justin at June 25, 2005 07:15 AM (tFwvo)
5
I might even go further and say a taking would qualify as a public use only if it resulted in a loss of taxable property.
It seems to me that that's already covered by
"...public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public." One exception might be when taking land for a highway and then putting up toll booths. But, that's not a "property tax" since the government (public) owns, maintains and operates it, it's a "user fee". The difference is that it's for public use, it's not a privately owned hotel or office building.
Wait a minute, I just realized something. Highways are public property. Toll booths are unConstitutional! We shouldn't have to pay to drive on public roads any more than we should have to pay to walk down the frickin' street!
Hmmm. This could get tricky...
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 01:20 PM (c4k0Z)
6
Government shall not take property for any purpose that includes or results in higher taxation
I'm imagining several problems there. Howsabout:
The right to ownership of property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that "property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation" shall be narrowly construed.
1. To protect the right to property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the People.
2. Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in higher taxation for any person, private business or other legal personality other than government and the People shall retain ownership, maintenance and operation of taken property for a period of not less than 25 years.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 02:30 PM (c4k0Z)
7
Ick! "2." needs some more work. Working on it...
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 02:35 PM (c4k0Z)
8
2. Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in revenue-based taxation of any person, private business or other legal personality.
3.
Government shall retain ownership, maintenance and operation of taken property for a period of not less than 25 years.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 02:41 PM (c4k0Z)
9
I think the problem with #2 is that it is looking at taxes from the wrong perspective. Probably a result of how the original was written.
This clause is a direct response to the Kelo decision and is meant to eliminate taking purely for increased tax revenue as a public use. It is not about an individuals taxes.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 02:42 PM (ics4u)
10
O.K. so this would have gone better if my comment had gotten here before yours!
How about:
Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in increased revenue through taxation of any person, private business or other legal entity.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 02:47 PM (ics4u)
11
Too foggy. Would taking one's property to build a highway that (with a toll booth) might,
coincidentally, generate revenue for the state be unConstitutional?
Or:
Government shall retain the responsibility of ownership, maintenance and operation of taken property for a period of not less than 25 years.
And I'll be bold and take issue with the phrase
"increased revenue". I wanna discard thw word
"increased"
Public property should demand no revenue. Ever. Call me a purist but I still believe that my government's property is my own.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 25, 2005 04:29 PM (/jxWQ)
12
But it states specifically increased revenue through taxation. i.e. taken property cannot be used in a manner that generates tax revenue.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 25, 2005 04:42 PM (ics4u)
13
I don't know that toll booths are something that really needs to be worried about. I'd also take out the part about the state owning the land for a certain amount of time, and instead put in something mandating that the state shall propose and justify any use of eminent domain, then have a time limit to build it in. I'm not certain how that would be worded, however...
"Government shall not take property for any purpose that results in increased revenue through taxation of any person, private business or other legal entity."
I think that works well for #2. The essence of the issue is there. Anything that is written will be open to interpretation anyway, so I think that overwording will only bring confusion later down the line.
Posted by: Justin at June 26, 2005 06:00 AM (tFwvo)
14
Justin,
One of the reasons for putting a significant time requirement is to prevent a town from taking a property, holding it for a few months than saying "we don't need it after all so were selling to developer X. No developer/business is going to wait 50 years for a property.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 26, 2005 06:04 AM (ics4u)
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June 24, 2005
Open Source Constitutional Amendment
I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV so I'm going to need a little help with this. We who would like to regain our property rights have few choices. We can either wait until the balance of the court changes and another case is heard and hell freezes over. Or, we can change the law. Which in this instance, means amending the Constitution.
Property rights are too fundamental to the concept of Liberty to allow them to be diminished at the hands of a mere five people. But since the court can can define “public use” any way five concurring justices would like, we're stuck with their expansive definition unless we can enact our own.
So my proposal is this. An amendment to the Constitution limiting the taking power of government by expressly limiting the scope of “public use” to actual public use. This is where I need your help. Below is my draft of the amendment. I request your comments and input to help refine the language.
Once the amendment is finalized It will take all of us, and all of our readers and all of their readers and all off theirs, and their friends too, to start it on its way to ratification.
The right to property is the cornerstone of liberty. The Fifth Amendment to this Constitution states that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation. To further protect the right to property, public use shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the direct use of the public.
Zendo Deb is taking a more detailed approach that is definately worth a look.
more...
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
02:40 PM
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1
I like it, though I think there should be some details put in. Otherwise they will condem and take the land - and then lease it to WalMart or whoever.
And it should probably have to stay in government hands for a minimum of 99 years.
Since the court seems to be operating in the mode "whatever these 5 people want to do is the law," we need to make it so that they have no room to wiggle.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at June 24, 2005 04:51 PM (S417T)
2
I think we really need to simplify this whole thing. Why not just amend it to state that no "public use" properties can create tax revenue? Then there would be no incentive.
Posted by: Justin at June 24, 2005 06:16 PM (tFwvo)
3
Haven't read the extended entry yet, but just wanted to say in that I'd replace the word "direct" with the wrod "free" which, I think, also addresses Justin's (above) concern as well. I'd suggest altering the opening line, as well, and making it a bit "retro":
The right to ownership of one's property being the cornerstone of liberty, the Fifth Amendment to this Constitution's statement that property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation shall be narrowly construed.
To protect the Right to property, the "public use" standard shall be limited to property that shall be entirely owned, maintained and operated by government for the free use by the People.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 24, 2005 07:09 PM (kptCS)
4
Curses! The multi-paragraph blockquotes gremlin strikes again!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 24, 2005 07:12 PM (kptCS)
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June 23, 2005
I Used To Own A House
Forget flag burning. We need an amendment banning desecration of the Constitution.
Not satisfied with having seriously abridged our First Amendment protected right to free speech by sanctifying the speech restrictions of Campaign Finance Reform the Supreme Court in a split decision has targeted the Fifth Amendment. Specifically the language that reads “nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
You and I no longer own homes. We occupy them. We pay the bank every month for the privilege of living there as long as the government wants to let us.
In the ruling handed down today, the court ruled that the town of New London, CT could exercise eminent domain and take homes and business from citizens and turn the land over to private developers to build a river-front hotel, a health club and offices.
The Court has ruled that “economic development” qualifies as a public use. Economic development for who? For the homeowner who has worked and paid the mortgage month after month? Or for the developer who gets property he couldn't get on the open market because the owners didn't want to sell their homes?
What is to stop a developer from telling the city that if they take your home and give it to them, they can increase its economic value to the city. Not your right to your property. You no longer have that.
As the Supreme Court continues to render the words of the Constitution meaningless, perhaps it getting to be time to take these words to heart again.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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I'm going to stop adding names to this list and just send you off the Kelo Topic Page at Truth Laid Bear. He's got a very big list of blogs writing on this topic, even though he seems to have missed this one!
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
09:10 AM
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1
People forget that we used to have something called allodial title in this country. That meant that you owned your property outright and nobody could take it from you.
In the Treaty of Paris, which ended the American Revolutionary war, the American people were given their lands in "Allodial Title". What this means is that we then owned all the property in this country free and clear.
Allodial - "Free; not holden of any lord or superior; owned without obligation of vassalage or fealty; the opposite of feudal."
What these means to the average American is that, at some point, our government has returned us to the feudal system of land ownership. Now we "owe" an obligation to our government to pay taxes on the property that we "should" own in allodial title. Not only is this land, but also every possession we have including our houses, our cars and everything else we think we own.
With all of the talk of "reducing the deficit", why don't we consider doing what our forefathers once proposed?
Hence, if you pay taxes on something, you really don't own it. The taxes paid are for the privilege of occupying or using it.
When the masses wake up to this, the Banksters and their Congress Critters had better run for the hills.
Posted by: Wally Q at June 23, 2005 09:45 AM (D7DRM)
2
Holy krap. Just got home from work and read this. Holy krap. I really didn't see how the town of New London had a case here. Holy krap. There goes the neighborhood; here comes another Walmart. Forcing you to sell your home to a developer to build a hotel and office space "qualifies as public use"? Holy krap. 5-4 decision? I presume it's the usual suspects.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 23, 2005 05:13 PM (eEGUY)
3
And another thing. What the hell does NOT qualify as "public use" now? I mean, if the gubmint can force you to sell to another private owner than there isn't any limit left to emminent domain. None!
"Excuse me, Mister Macklin. Leonardo DiCaprio wants to move to town, but he'll only do it if he can live in your house. Y'see, he loves what you've done with the new additions and we'd really really like to say that we're the hometown of Leonardo DiCaprio -- it could be an economic boon. Be out by the 31st, 'kay?"
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 23, 2005 05:22 PM (eEGUY)
4
As you well know - we live in an area where McMansions spring up faster than weeds. There is nothing to prevent the town from taking my entire neighborhood of renovated 1950's capes and handing it over to some developer to bulldoze and re-subdivide into McMansion lots. Hey it's better tax revenue!
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 23, 2005 05:27 PM (ics4u)
5
And what's even sadder is that an insult to this injury is coming. Don't expect that those being forced to sell their homes to a developer will be paid "
just compensation". No-o-o-o. The land may be worth millions to the new "buyer" but, I'll bet ya dollars to doughnuts that the old "sellers" will be paid market value for their homes as they stand right now.
And congrats on being blogrolled by the Emperor!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 23, 2005 06:20 PM (eEGUY)
6
Actually by definition they are getting less than current market value. If you assume that there is a dollar value at which they would sell without government coercion, that represents the market price. Obviously the developer isn't willing to pay that or they wouldn't have gotten their pals in the govt to intervene.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 23, 2005 06:44 PM (ics4u)
7
We don't need a hanging, nor a revolution. What we need is a simple constitutional amendment to reverse the "Boss Hogg Decision" as someone nicknamed it over on Free Republic.
Resolved: no government, agency, district, or authority, nor any such entity created under the authority of same, whether public or private, shall have the authority to compel any owner of a property, whether real or virtual, movable or not, to sell same to any other entity, whether public or private, by use of any application or form of law, duress, coercement, or mandate.
-------------------------------------------------
Just how much danger we are in is illustrated by an article I wrote a year ago:
Tax Increment Reinvestment Zones In Texas
The Girl Scouts of America meet up with a shadowy quasi-governmental organization....
If the html doesn't work the url is:
http://www.houblog.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=21
Posted by: ubu at June 23, 2005 07:14 PM (makk8)
8
Newsflash - Developers Use Eminent Domain to Acquire White House
http://armedvictim.blogspot.com/
Posted by: j. blair at June 23, 2005 07:15 PM (B54dL)
9
"Forget flag burning. We need an amendment banning desecration of the Constitution."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
BTW, thanks for the link.
Posted by: Russell Newquist at June 24, 2005 07:45 AM (lUNFP)
10
"We pay the bank every month for the privilege of living there as long as the government wants to let us."
No, you pay the bank every month under a contract that says the bank won't evict you if you keep paying on the loan until it is paid off. You pay
property taxes every six months for the privilege of living there.
And now the government can throw you off
even if you've payed on the legal contract terms of the bank, and the theft-at-gunpoint terms of your property taxation, as long as someone can convince your local government that they can put something on your property that will provide
more tax income than your property taxes do.
You don't own your property, and never have. But the terms of the rental contract just changed, and you had no say in it.
Posted by: Kevin Baker at June 27, 2005 09:34 AM (BiMLC)
11
I find the United States Supreme Court totally out of line in their INTERPRETATION of PUBLIC USE. Since when does public mean private? I think the Justices that voted yes need to be impeached, and to go back to grammar school. They are not worth their salaries the tax payers have to pay.
The Supreme Court has no right to change the law. Their job is to interpret the law, not change it. I just looked up Public in the dictionary.
Public(of,belonging to,or concerning the people as a whole.)
Private (not for the public.)
I also feel that as long as I have to pay real estate taxes on my property, that it is not public property.What has just happened in the United States of America, to a persons home is their Castle?
Posted by: Robert Ziak at June 28, 2005 11:30 AM (ZCnB7)
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June 22, 2005
Don't Ban The Burn
I want to go on the record as saying that flag burning is offensive. It is offensive not in a deeply personal inspire me to riot kind of way. But it's like being called names on the playground. It is infantile. It is meaningless. If it gives some Islamic nutjob or modern day American hippie a vicarious thrill to watch it burn, so what. I really don't give a damn.
I also want to be on the record as saying that the idea of an amendment to the Constitution empowering the Congress to ban desecration of the flag is one of the most repugnant to come out of Washington in a long time. The flag is a piece of colored cloth. I'm wearing colored cloth right now. But my shirt does not stand for anything. It does not represent anything.
The Flag does. The flag is a visual symbol of the United States of America. What matters about the flag is not the threads. Not the Stars or the Strips. What matters about the flag is the ideas it represents. America is not a piece of cloth. America is an idea, and an ideal. Burn the cloth, shred the cloth, flush the cloth and you do nothing to damage the idea. Nothing to weaken the ideal.
One of the ideas symbolized by the flag is the idea of freedom. This includes the freedom to be an infantile idiot who gets a thrill from burning the flag.
I have enough faith left in the rationality of enough of America to expect this Amendment to go down in flames.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
04:25 PM
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1
Absolutely. I caught a lot of hell at the American Legion because I was against the last attempt at this legislation.
Posted by: Ted at June 23, 2005 03:05 AM (blNMI)
2
I guess if they start to burn the flag, I can put my fire extinguisher training to use.
Pull pin
Aim at base of fire
Squeeze handle
Sweep from side to side
If it is CO2, it gets real cold real quick. Would not want to be holding said burnign flag.
Posted by: Sarge at June 23, 2005 09:40 AM (RelpD)
3
With you all the way on this one. The irony is that burning a flag is the proper way of disposing of a damaged one. This proposed amendment targets certain expressions associated with a protest burning and is therefore content specific. The reasons for a flag burning law being unContitutional are pretty valid, I think. Let's not go amending away our freedoms!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 23, 2005 05:00 PM (eEGUY)
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June 21, 2005
Durbin Aplologizes
Late this afternoon Senator Dick Durbin took to the floor of the Senate and offered this
apology for his comments comparing the U.S. military detention center to the Soviet Gulags, Nazi Concentration Camps and Khmer Ruge Killing Fields.
“More than most people, a senator lives by his words ... occasionally words fail us, occasionally we will fail words,” Durbin, D-Ill., said.
“I am sorry if anything I said caused any offense or pain to those who have such bitter memories of the Holocaust, the greatest moral tragedy of our time. Nothing, nothing should ever be said to demean or diminish that moral tragedy.
”I am also sorry if anything I said cast a negative light on our fine men and women in the military ... I never ever intended any disrespect for them. Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line to them I extend my heartfelt apology.“
The Fox News story describes Durbin as ”choking on his words.“ Of that, I have no doubt. Given his week long defense of his comments and the widespread support within his party and the mainstream media, it had to have been difficult for to now express regret.
I cannot help but wonder if Al Jazeera will trumpet the apology as loudly as they broadcast the original statements. What will the Star Tribune will say. But since he didn't retract the statements only apologize for their offensiveness, I doubt either of those sources will take notice.
For me, its way to little and way too late. Durbin must go.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
02:58 PM
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I've Been Tagged
21st Century Paladin tagged me with the movie meme. I'll play along to the extent of answering the questions. I won't tag anyone - unless you feel really strongly that someone should suffer. If so, leave their name in the comments and I'll consider it.
1. Total number of films I own on DVD/video:
I don't have an exact number my wife loves movies. The kids love movies. Let's just say more than two hundred and leave it at that.
2. The last film I bought:
Well, my wife does most of the buying. The last DVD I paid for was the Justice League for my son. Not really a “film” just a collection of campy animated super-heros with and overly dramatic voice over. “Later at the Hall of Justice...” Some day I'll do a whole post on the enormous stupidity of the Wonder Twins. But not today.
3. The last film I watched:
I took my daughter to see Madagascar. It was amusing in the way that all of those kids animated movies with double entendres for the adults is amusing. The jokes were clever - entirely expected and predictable - but clever. I only fell asleep once or twice.
4. Five films that I watch a lot or that mean a lot to me:
I don't think I could say that any film means a lot to me. I don't watch movies for meaning. I watch for entertainment. So there are some I have watched a lot. (note I am excluding any of the kids movies which I have seen and seen and seen and seen.)
1. The Lord of the Rings trilogy. I read the books when I was young. So young that we had an 8-track tape player in our bedroom. I started with The Hobbit then the Trilogy. Throughout the entire course of the books, the same tape was playing in the background. Who Are You by The Who. It was interesting to watch the movies which of course had a much different sound track. When I watch them, I don't hear the Who. But when I hear any song from that album it still invokes images from the stories.
2. Star Wars - all of it even though the first prequels kind of sucked and I haven't seen Sith yet.
3. October Sky. The closest any film has come to having meaning for me.
4. The Matrix. I really only loved the first one. The second two seemed a little too self involved. I've seen the first one at least 10 times. The second and third only three or four each.
5. The Usual Suspects. The whole Verbal Kint/Kaiser Sose twist was great. It is one of the few twists in a plot I didn't see coming. Back in the OS 9 days I had a shut down sound of Kint saying “And like that... he's gone.”
5. Tag five others with this meme
Like I said, I'll take requests.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
02:03 PM
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Bring It Home To Durbin
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.”
Here's the phone number for Dick Durbin's office. (202) 224-2152.
Cue up the most obnoxious piece of music you can find.
Turn it up real loud.
Dial.
Repeat.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
08:08 AM
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June 18, 2005
Letter to Congress on Dick Durbin
Below is the text my letter to the people representing me in Congress, Senator Lieberman, Senator Dodd, and Representative Shays. I also copied Bill Frist, M.D.
Recently a colleague of yours, and a member of the Democratic Party leadership in the Senate, compared the treatment of illegal combatant terrorists held at Guantanamo Bay Cuba with the atrocities of the Soviet Gulags, Nazi Concentration Camps, and Pol Pot's Killing Fields.
Do you agree that the American Military and the Bush Administration are the moral equivalent of Stalin and the KGB or Pol Pot and the Khmer Ruge?
Do you agree that the actions outlined by Senator Durbin such as the playing of loud music and manipulating the air conditioning to make a prisoner uncomfortable are the moral equivalent of Nazi Germany exterminating six million Jews?
Do you agree with Senator Durbin that such a comparison is not an insult to all who serve in the U.S. Armed Forces and their families, to all who suffered or are connected to the suffering of the world's most barbarically repressive regimes, and to all American's?
If you do not, you should be on the Senate floor or in front of a press microphone at the first possible moment to condemn Senator Durbin's comments in the strongest possible language and demand an apology if not the Senator's resignation.
I would also like to request that you immediately submit to the Senate a resolution censuring Senator Durbin for his comments.
Overwhelmingly anti-American statements such as those made by Senator Durbin cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. Your failure to do so would be further insult to the people of Connecticut. An insult I and many others will be sure to remind voters of when you next you stand for re-election.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
07:56 AM
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1
your comments were totally out of line, your apology sucks, i hope you rot in hell
Posted by: joe at June 21, 2005 06:56 PM (P+zQD)
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June 16, 2005
Prisoner Abuse Reality Check
When ranking members on one side of a war send out video for news outlets to air that is really nothing more than propaganda what happens? Well if the video comes from an agency of the Bush White House there is a great uproar and the media drips with righteous indignation. When the video is an Al Qaeda snuff film from Iraq, if it gets covered at all, it's just news.
When Al Qaeda captures an enemy, or even a civilian, they release a video of the terrified detainee reading a statement at gunpoint pleading for their lives. The next time the detainee is seen, the hooded guards read the statement for the camera and then their leader invades the detainee's personal space with a knife and cuts his head off.
When the U.S. captures an enemy combatant and review determines that he should be sent to Cuba for interrogation, they make him uncomfortable. First they turn up the AIR CONDITIONING really high and make the detainee cold. Then they have sadistic cruelty to turn the AIR CONDITIONING off and make the detainee hot. Think about that contrast for a moment. One side will cut you head of on camera while you scream in agony, the other side will mess with your AIR CONDITIONING.
AIR CONDITIONING.
The enemy captured four civilian contractors in Falujah. They killed them. They burned and mutilated the bodies and hung the remains from a bridge.
The U.S. left a detainee chained to the floor and and he soiled himself. Then we played loud music and messed with his AIR CONDITIONING.
And who are the bad guys in this comparison? Well according to Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, we are the bad guys. Earlier this week he said
Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:
On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18–24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime—Pol Pot or others— that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
In trying to defend and justify his comments, Durbin said
What I said is you might conclude this was done by one of those repressive regimes.
Yeah right. You might conclude that before the detainees at Auschwitz were lead off to the gas chamber their Nazi guards played loud music and messed with the
AIR CONDITIONING. But beyond that his defense amounts to saying I read a list of things that American personnel did and and concluded that it was no different than the Khmer Rouge. The American Military is no different than the Nazs, the Soviets or the Khmer Rouge. If you ever wondered what was meant by the expression moral equivalence - there it is.
Dick Durbin compared American personnel messing with a detainee's AIR CONDITIONING the most brutally barbaric regimes in recent history. This man has to go. He needs to be removed from the Senate and it needs to happen before the next election. There is no excuse for the comments he made. There is no excuse to refuse to apologize. And were he to offer an apology now, it would be too little to late.
AIR CONDITIONING.
UPDATE: Michelle Malkin has more and a great collection of links.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
04:09 PM
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1
Hmmm. Two nights ago I was in my room sitting at my 'puter and it was really really hot and humid and like a sauna in here. Last night and tonight it was kinda cold and crisp and like a cold basement. I blame Bush.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 16, 2005 05:52 PM (wizTQ)
2
Oh YEA will the town where I live is so Becoming so overpopulated that you can be backed up for MINUTES I got stuck next to this Hispanick with a short stupid looking truck and had to listen to his MORONIC boom Box pounding out simplistic rythyms delivered by spazztic chimpanzees wearing berets , Then when I got home my girlfreind was having HOT FLASHES ....
AGAIN and the dog chewed up the hose
Heres the TWIST ...... I blame it on AL GORE
You Know the prick that brought ud ACID RAIN
GLOBAL WARMING and The heart break of Phsoriasis Thank god no one voted for him { LEGALLY]
Posted by: skinner at June 17, 2005 12:14 AM (leTFD)
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Passing Me By
It seems as though the world is passing me by. At least as far as Hold The Mayo is concerned. I have a mental list of things I want to write about but I don't seem to have the time. I get home from work and its family time until the kids go to bed then I sit down and do work. I'm a long way from being caught up the point where I can take a night off.
So here's a few quick hits in the ten minutes I have.
I've read about the treatment of Gitmo detainees. Loud music, attractive women in your personal space, shaving, removing clothing. That's not torture. You put it the right order and its a date. I'm sure for some of you the being chained to floor part is good too.
Dick Durbin is a dick. In my more cynical moments I'm beginning to believe that you have to be stupid to want to be in the U.S. Senate. Because there seems to be so many idiots who have the job.
Global Warming is still not a man made crisis and there is still no scientific consensus that it is.
Kofi Anan is a crook. That he is the head of the U.N. is kind of appropriate. A corrupt organization should have a corrupt leader.
John Bolton should be confirmed.
The Senate Republicans still seem to have trouble with the concept of leading. (see above.)
I love reading The Bleat. Lileks' charming stories about life with Gnat are so well crafted and enjoyable. I look forward to reading one every morning. But secretly every time I click on the bookmark I'm kind of hoping he is going off on someone or something because he does it so well.
Is not an email campaign to bring down a TV show the metaphorical equivalent of bringing down a skyscraper? Granted, a writer who jumps from a cancelled show usually lands on his feet. But they have a certain poetic symmetry, no?
No. And anyone who tries to make the point deserves to be struck in the face with a thick, wet, cold haddock.
Now there is place to go just get this fix. Be sure to check out
Screedblog.
If I have the time and the strength I'll actually write something reasoned and topical. But this all I can muster.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
11:58 AM
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1
I have a mental list of things I want to write about but I don't seem to have the time.
I know exactly how you feel. Except my list is in voice messages on my phone. Yeah, I call myself and leave messages. Is that proactive or just sad?
Posted by: Jim at June 17, 2005 05:59 AM (tyQ8y)
2
Stephen: I agree with it all! Not bad for 10 min. work.
Jim: Great idea! I think I'll do that too. Thanks.
Posted by: michele at June 17, 2005 01:11 PM (ht2RK)
3
I've used the voicemail trick too. Mostly if I hear something on the news on the way to/from work.
I also send myself emails.
I have a recurring Outlook event to remind me to pay the mortgage.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at June 17, 2005 02:21 PM (ics4u)
4
thanks for blocking my las {Clean} comment Stephen Print this GIRLY MAN
Posted by: skinner at June 20, 2005 10:13 PM (leTFD)
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June 11, 2005
The Alphabet Songs
Picked up this meme from Gir over at
Your Moosey Fate.
Put your iPod list, (or whatever music thingy you use), in alphabetical order, and list the first song for each letter.
I did it straight from iTunes because it has all the same song as the iPod and the program I use to write this blog has a neat little button that automatically enters and formats the currently playing iTunes song. I've been waiting a long for time to have a use for that button.
“Em Elbmuh” from the album “'Jed'” by Goo Goo Dolls
A Life Of Illusion from the album “Billboard Top Album Rock Hits” by Joe Walsh
Baba O'Rielly by The Who
Cajun from the album “New Miserable Experience” by Gin Blossoms
Damn from the album “Yourself Or Someone Like You” by Matchbox Twenty
East St. Louis Toodle-oo from the album “A Decade of Steely Dan” by Steely Dan
F.M. from the album “A Decade of Steely Dan” by Steely Dan
Gettin' In Tune from the album “Who's Next” by The Who
Had Enough from the album “'Jed'” by Goo Goo Dolls
I Alone from the album “Throwing Copper” by Live
James Dean from the album “'Jed'” by Goo Goo Dolls
Keep Your Hands To Yourself from the album “Georgia Satellites” by Georgia Satellites
Lawyers, Guns and Money from the album “A Quiet Normal Life - The Best of Warren Zevon” by Warren Zevon
Magic from the album “The Cars Greatest Hits” by The Cars
need you tonight from the album “Coyote Ugly OST” by inxs
On Every Street from the album “On The Night (LIVE)” by Dire Straits
Peaches by Presidents Of The United State
Q
Real World from the album “Yourself Or Someone Like You” by Matchbox Twenty
Satellite from the album “Remember Two Things [Live]” by Dave Matthews Band
T.B.D. from the album “Throwing Copper” by Live
Uncle Salty from the album “Toys In The Attic” by Aerosmith
Vera from the album “The Wall” by Pink Floyd
Waiting for the Worms from the album “The Wall” by Pink Floyd
X
Yet Another Movie from the album “A Momentary Lapse Of Reason” by Pink Floyd
Z
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at
04:42 PM
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1
Hmmm. I have Live's
Throwing Copper on vinyl and I've never listened to it. I hafta give a spin!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 12, 2005 07:00 AM (nOyDe)
2
Cool. Love Warren Zevon. Seems like, as memes go, it's probably too much typing for me!
Posted by: RP at June 15, 2005 04:18 AM (LlPKh)
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