Hold the Mayo

May 21, 2009

Monkey Trials

This started out as a comment at Confederate Yankee. I would have left it there but I got a server error each of the three times I tried to post.

CY's post is about the news stories regarding the discovery of a 47-million-year-old monkey fossil (some kind of Lemur technically). Posts on this on a couple of sites have generated hundreds of comments as blog commenters attempt to settle the question "Does God exist?" (I don't think they have figured it out yet, and they are certainly a very long way from reaching any kind of consensus on the issue.)

I normally don't wade in on these shout fests because it is usually not worth it unless you're just interested in seeing how many people you can piss off with one comment. This part of the post struck a nerve though so I had to throw down my two cents.

Science, as wonderful as it is, can tell us only that the universe we know is roughly 4.6 billion years old, and that it probably started with a big bang. But it cannot tell us what existed 4.61 billion years ago, and offers no workable hypothesis about where that matter was prior to it's dispersal or where it came from, or how it got there, any better than when God simply spoke:

L E T T H E R E B E L I G H T

...and there was.

So I wrote this in response:

The truly wonderful thing about faith is that you believe whatever you want about anything. It all depends on the meaning of "is."

The fact that science does not (yet) or cannot know what caused the Big Bang or what came before, does not provide evidence either for or against the existence of god.

Science has invalidated a literal reading of the Biblical account of creation. All that is left is for believers to point to everything science has learned and claim "god did that too."

I would rather accept not knowing than accept a story on faith.

Posted by: Stephen Macklin at 03:46 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment

Still no spell checker.

Love that show gotta have faith. Take faith away and you lose the wonder of it all.

A clear head takes a 72 degrees sunshine and a cool breaze off of a lake.

Why are people so much at each others throats that they can't just go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?

When you go outside is it the sun that makes you feel more alive and clean inside or just the vitmin D. I dunno. I believe there is a God, but for a mere moment (couple a weeks) I thought different.

What difference did it make in my life to change back and fourth like that? Not much. I still went to work and did my thing. I still behaved in such a manner that I recieved accolades. I still say today, whoop-dee-doo over it.

What difference would it make if I left my mark on this world? It still is going to get into it big one day and all my caring will have meant nothing to those people who suffer then. It just makes me nuts I guess.

At least I am a happy nut who loves to go out side and catch a little sun every day.

Posted by: Ron at May 23, 2009 10:00 AM (aVvnI)

2 Entering a discussion on religion like this can only lead to disaster; think I'll hold back this time.

Posted by: T F Stern at May 23, 2009 10:06 AM (Ruh11)

3 I actually have nothing per se against religion or the religious. However, when either side of the debate spouts stupidity in support of their position, I feel compelled to challenge them. In this particular case it was the assertion that the lack of scientific knowledge is proof of god's existence.

I certainly have no great desire for disaster!

Posted by: Stephen Macklin at May 23, 2009 10:54 AM (R7LgM)

4 I agree. I have as much as complained against morons amongst the religious, spouting unprovable nonsense like the world is only 6000 years old. I guess I am an equal opportunity basher though. I tend to hammer away at so-called strange (what I think)unproven non-religeous theories as well.

Posted by: Ron at May 24, 2009 11:04 AM (bDOPp)

5 Ron,

What it comes down to for me is the objectively provable truth. Theories have their place in the search for that truth but they are not a substitute for the truth.

When people accept unproven theory as truth we get things like Global Warming and economy wrecking cap & trade tax schemes.

At the risk of further alienating my religious friends, I view the notion of a god creating the universe as another still unproven theory.

Posted by: Stephen Macklin at May 24, 2009 02:11 PM (R7LgM)

I think that concrete proof is esential to maintaining ones own sanity myself. I love to theorize and I could do it all day long but I don't want one person doing somthing based upon my (maybe whacked)

ideas. I kind of like it when people check out what I say. Never know I might have a good idea or two.

As far as alienating Christian friends probably not, I take it on faith that God created the heavens and the earth but how in the world could I ask a non believer to believe in something when the best and brightest minds of this world are probably only scratching the surface of what we now know and when the first thing a person would have to believe is that Christ saves you in order for them to take any thing else on faith(unproven acceptance of a belief). I usually myself stick to the things I can prove or draw upon some common sense notion. Otherwise why bother, to me it is just foolish. In fact I have not yet spoke of a religious(I hate that word)

matter at another persons site unless the subject was opened first.

I like the statement made by an athiest recently that religion is the formal practice of ones beliefs. I am nearly as far from almost any religious activity as I can be. I practice a realtionship because my God is very close to me. (I don't hear voices) It is more a friendship of the heart. Heart to heart sort of deal. I digress.

My point is that Christians are not going to be alienated because you don't believe. If they are and I know some who would be then they ain't much use as Christians.

Truth has been a casualty of these (metaphorical) political battles over the last tenty thirty years but I think people may get the idea that honesty is a better road. I believe that in areas like global warming and economics this huge recession is just what the Dr. ordered. It is sad to think that to remind us that we have to be more straight forward we have to get our economic butts whacked.

Posted by: Ron at May 24, 2009 11:53 PM (r7UIN)

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